mk zariel interviews Alex Carrigan

zariel: Tell me a little about your poetry, and more specifically Now Let’s Get Brunch–what is it about, and what was your writing process like?

Carrigan: Now Let’s Get Brunch is my first full-length collection of poetry, published by Querencia Press in 2023. It’s a collection of cento poetry made from collaging tweets made from 40 drag queens who have appeared across the Drag Race reality TV franchise.

My method of writing these poems was to find accounts of these queens, see how active and diverse their Twitter postings were, and then pulling their posts into a Word doc. Once I had enough pages, I would mix and match them, adding line breaks, and turning them into stanzas. The more content I had, the better, as this allowed me to find some common phrases or jokes in their posting habits, as well as find some themes to explore in their posts.

Once these were done, I gave each piece a title based on a visual or image that came to mind while putting the poem together. Many of these were based on their image in and outside of the show, while others were stream of consciousness, hence titles like “Bob the Drag Queen Gazes into the Purse, and the Purse Gazes Also” and “Trixie Mattel Before the Unveiling of Her Gold Statue.”

zariel: This poetry collection was entirely comprised of tweets by the cast of RuPaul’s Drag Race. How did you choose the form of cut-up poetry, and how do you think it changed your message?

Carrigan: I had originally published a chapbook, May All Our Pain Be Champagne (Alien Buddha Press, 2022), where I had done this method with figures from the Real Housewives franchise. The first Real Housewives cento had been originally written for a themed call around the time where I had first learned about centos. I don’t remember exactly what gave me the idea to use their Twitter posts as the source material, but I found the process quite fun and something I could do with numerous figures.

Champagne was the first experimentation of the format, while Brunch was the expansion of it. I didn’t have as many Real Housewives to work with (they’re by and large more of an Instagram crowd), while the queens of Drag Race were more active and numerous on Twitter. 

As for messages, these books were my first real active foray into poetry. I had been writing poetry on and off since college, and it wasn’t until COVID-19 that I spent more time reading and writing poetry. I do consider myself a better writer when I’m given prompts or challenges, hence why I now try to write a poem-a-day for a month three times a year, as this allows me to write daily and find a specific reason to writer. 

I have always been a snarky, comedic person, and I think the heightened camp exaggeration of reality TV developed that. I was raised on shows like America’s Next Top Model, American Idol, Flavor of Love, and more, so when the genre changed in the 2010s, it ended up affecting my writing. By doing these centos of reality TV figures, it felt like I was adding to the camp environment. No one would expect poetic verses from figures like Brandi Glanville nor Bianca del Rio, but by recontextualizing their social media content into poetry, you, the reader, are asked to question if there is depth present and how reexamining their words can draw out any new opinions towards these figures.

Because these poems are also being collaged from specific periods of time (Champagne was written in late 2021-early 2022, Brunch was primarily written throughout 2022), you also get an idea of what topics these individuals found the most important to share and discuss. Many of the Housewives openly declare their reality compared to the perceived fakeness of their show’s concept, while the queens deal with various issues towards the LGBT+ community, such as the show’s toxic fandom or racism within the community. Not all of these figures are using their platform for social progress, and while this does result in some of the more absurd and comedic pieces in both collections, everything is presented solely as the voice of this person and what inspires them to use their platform.

zariel: Would you consider your poetry feminist? Why or why not?

Carrigan: It’s very hard to say with this. While I do consider myself a feminist, I do acknowledge that many of the pieces in both collections may not be considered feminist. Champagne is the more satirical collection of the two, and some may see it as a mockery of these women. Granted, most people wouldn’t look to The Real Housewives for progressive feminism to begin with, but it doesn’t deny that I am a cisgender man creating poetry that to some degree asks you to mock these women. However, I am not specifically asking for any point of view to be taken. I was surprised by the depth some of these women showed on Twitter, and some of their posts were clever and witty, so I think there’s a lot you can take out of it that can be feminist.

Meanwhile, I consider Brunch more of a pro LGBT+ collection than a feminist one. There are some transwomen in the collection and one AFAB queen whose poem addresses the misogyny she faces in the drag and Drag Race community. There is an argument that drag is inherently misogynistic to a degree, and some poems in the collection may not fully dispel that notion, but I also don’t believe it’s out there specifically to mock female-identifying persons. 

zariel: What is your stance on RuPaul’s harmful views regarding trans femininity, climate change, and other social issues? In this chapbook, did you aim to critique Drag Race, and if so, what was that like?

Carigan: For the last few years, I’ve considered RuPaul the least interesting part of the show. Yes, they have put together a great show that has launched the careers of numerous figures all over the world. However, RuPaul is, at the end of the day, an executive producer, and there is a lot of conflict between their opinions and how they’ve handled specific topics. There has been some change in the last few years, especially towards being more trans-inclusive after years of refusing to permit queens who have or were in the middle of transitioning.

I did not write my book to critique Drag Race. The queens in my book do critique Drag Race, and many of them do have valid points. Drag Race has a notably toxic fandom, particularly towards queens of color. To me, what was important was that the book be the voice of these figures who went from doing tip spots at local bars to international fame, and how that has changed them over time. 

I am glad Drag Race does exist. I am glad for what it did for LGBT+ culture and for the people who appeared on the show. But it is an inherently flawed series for numerous reasons not worth discussing right now. When I wrote Brunch, I wanted to look at these LGBT+ entertainers whose careers were at the same point as RuPaul’s in the late 80s and early 90s. Any one of them can be the next RuPaul, and some may have already surpassed them. The book was the platform for them to share their POVs. At no point did I ever consider writing a RuPaul poem, and I probably never will for the same reason I will never do an Andy Cohen poem: they don’t need the support, they have all the channels they need to speak, and I don’t think their platform is worth exploring.

You could argue against me for giving fabulously wealthy women a platform, but these ladies are less powerful than Andy Cohen or RuPaul, and they are often left to the mercy of the edit and the fandom if they say or do something wrong, so I think they are on the same level as the queens.

Also, fuck fracking. Fracking is bad. Don’t do it.

zariel: In this time of intense neofascism, queer performance and drag face abundant legal threats. How did you grapple with that while writing this drag-focused poetry collection? And how do you think poetry figures into the fight against homophobia?

Carrigan: When I wrote Brunch, it was right around the start of the drag ban discussions. Some of the poems do address the responses from figures like Caitlyn Jenner and the attacks on their community. As a queer creative, I hate the idea that my expression could be seen as damaging and harmful, and worthy of being suppressed legally. So while the book does feel silly at times, it did feel important to work on it and get the poems out into the world. There were 40 artists in the book who all had fascinating POVs and things to say. And they’re just a small fraction of the community. They’re the ones who are the most visible. So by putting this collection together, it was a call to say “here are the true words of these people. Can you find commonality in what they’re saying?”

For poets to combat discrimination against the LGBT+ community, it really is just a matter of continuing to write and put yourself out there. As a bisexual man, I have struggled with making my work more bi, but my work is inherently bi because it is mine. But at the same time, my writing isn’t all about my sexuality, nor do I want it to be. It’s important to acknowledge, but like the Housewives and the queens, what matters more is that every poem is the logical steps taken for me to select every word that appears and every topic to address. Maybe these centos are dumb, but I had fun writing them and people have fun reading them. My other poetic works may be sadder, angrier, or more complex, but everything I write is a demand for people to acknowledge me as a creative and as a person. The day I stop writing is the day I stop breathing, but it will not be the end of me. 

zariel: What was your experience like editing and publishing these works? Had you collaborated with literary magazines on any of them? And what was it like navigating copyright in the context of cut-up poetry?

Carrigan: Centos do run into a lot of copyright issues for publishing, but many publications didn’t mind. Many centos do fall under Fair Use guidelines for poetry, although there are some steps needed to keep everything okay. I made sure to cite the accounts in every poem I wrote, sometimes expanding them if the editors asked.

When it came to the collections, I did have to consult a lawyer (re: a family member) to ensure everything was legal. For Twitter, the posts are public content, although some Twitter users can claim copyright on personal opinions and history. I did have Fair Use to back me since I could claim the poems were “transformative works for satirical purposes,” plus I also had time between writing and publishing to give some grace, as people often forget what they tweet a year ago. 

What mostly settled it was that I am not wealthy or powerful. I am a small, independent writer with very little to his name, so any lawsuit would be a waste of time. The most that could happen would be a cease-and-desist, but no one has filed anything, and the works have not received the attention of anyone who could and would have issues with the books. 

I will say that, the few times I have engaged with the figures from both books, in person and on social media, they have been positive about it. I think the novelty and humor of the works could temper any possible negative responses they may have. One queen in Brunch even screenshotted and posted her entire poem to her Twitter, so that’s tacit approval.

If you are going to write and publish centos, please do the research and please make sure you’re okay. I was able to reach the space where I was okay to publish this work, but I am hesitant to branch out to other works unless I know it will not harm me or any publisher I work with. You have that responsibility, so you need to be willing to put the extra work in.

zariel: What poetry projects do you think you’ll work on next?

Carrigan: I do have a few projects in the works. Since publishing both collections, I have experimented with other poetic forms and have found a few I’ve deeply enjoyed. I am trying to publish a full-length collection of duplex poetry and a chapbook of prose poetry. Both forms are so fun to explore, and putting these collections together has been great. I’m still working on edits for both and am waiting for certain publishers to open for calls, so hopefully I’ll have more on them in 2025.

I am also working on a collaborative collection with my best friend. We’re meeting on Discord every few weeks to talk about our lives, and we use those conversations to come up with topics to write about for the next meeting. Our plan is to do this for a year before we really begin on the manuscript. We’re about six months in at the time of this interview, so we’ve got a while to go before we’re ready to send that out.

zariel: Anything else you’d like to share?

Carrigan: I think the main takeaway I want for people is that I want you to have fun with poetry. Discovering new poetic forms, writing about topics that interest you, and just going forward with the dumb ideas you have can produce some wonderful poetry. If it’s not enjoyable, don’t do it. If it’s cathartic, do it. I’ve written after poets I’ve admired, but I’ve also written and published work off K-Dramas and pop music. And I’m still writing Twitter centos! There’s always new queens to compete and new Housewives to join the casts, and so I’m still finding people worth exploring in this medium because the process of creating a Twitter cento is still fun if I allow myself to take time between each piece. I’ve made it a rule that every new Drag Race winner gets a poem after they’re crowned, and I plan to keep doing that until it stops being fun. I hope you find a reason to write that always remains fresh to you, and that you keep finding ways to explore it.

Alex Carrigan (he/him) is a Pushcart-nominated editor, poet, and critic from Alexandria, VA. He is the author of Now Let’s Get Brunch: A Collection of RuPaul’s Drag Race Twitter Poetry (Querencia Press, 2023) and May All Our Pain Be Champagne: A Collection of Real Housewives Twitter Poetry (Alien Buddha Press, 2022). He has appeared in The Broadkill Review, Sage Cigarettes, Barrelhouse, Fifth Wheel Press, Cutbow Quarterly, and more. Visit carriganak.wordpress.com or follow him on Twitter @carriganak for more info.

mk zariel {it/its} is a transmasculine poet, theater artist, movement journalist, & insurrectionary anarchist. it is fueled by folk-punk, Emma Goldman, and existential dread. it can be found online at https://linktr.ee/mkzariel, creating conflictually queer-anarchic spaces, and being mildly feral in the great lakes region. it is kinda gay ngl.